Gov’s ‘stay-home’ order has some teeth – Hasso Hering
Coronavirus Report

HASSO HERING

A perspective from Oregon’s mid-Willamette Valley

Gov’s ‘stay-home’ order has some teeth

Written March 23rd, 2020 by Hasso Hering

There was nobody at the Albany Skatepark near Hackleman Park on Monday afternoon.

Even skateparks such as Albany’s had to close Monday under Gov. Kate Brown’s order to “stay home, save lives.”

Lots of other places including government buildings and many businesses had to close to the public as well, and so did play areas in public and private parks.

In Albany, before Brown’s order, officials had previously canceled the scheduled Wednesday meeting of the city council. All agenda items for Wednesday were moved to April 8, assuming the shutdown of events is over by then.

The news, in print and on the air, has been full of summaries of the governor’s latest order. But if you want to know the details, exactly, you had better go through all eight pages of it yourself. You can read the executive order here.

There’s a long list of businesses that are banned from operating starting March 24 on the grounds that they’re the kind where “close personal contact is difficult or impossible to avoid.” Some items on the list, like barber shops and hair salons, are obvious. But museums? In most local museums around the state, including Albany’s, visitors are usually wandering around by themselves.

The governor has been issuing orders to try to control the new-coronavirus outbreak since March 8. One question: The motive is  admirable, but where does she get the legal authority to order people about in this way? The answer is in Chapters 401 and 403 of the Oregon Revised Statutes. The latest order lists all the applicable laws, and you can look them up.

This order, No. 20-12, also spells out the possible penalties for failing to comply. Doing so is a Class C misdemeanor, which is punishable by up to 30 days in jail and a $1,250 fine, or both.

Don’t expect anybody to be charged, let alone convicted and fined, for being in a prohibited space or getting within 4 or 5 feet of a stranger in public.

But in case somebody enters the skate park or uses the swings in somewhere else, the law is there just in case. (hh)

Even between showers Monday, no one was using the swing set at Takena Park.

 



38 responses to “Gov’s ‘stay-home’ order has some teeth”

    • Gordon L. Shadle says:

      So the Gov’s order means just walking around outside creates reasonable suspicion to detain on pretext.

      A police power that is commonly abused and exercised arbitrarily.

      All in the name of fighting a virus. Incredible.

  1. TWilson says:

    The Albany police have had an issue with the skate park ever since it was put in. They (APD) have harassed kids for many years down there. They (APD) will take full advantage of this time to fine kids and harass them. So all skaters stay away and follow this rule otherwise your life will be hell cause APD will make sure. Don’t even skate by there.

  2. Bob Zybach says:

    This is feeling more and more like a police state. I think the Governor has been grandstanding and flexing her power in competition with other Governors around the US. Yes, we are having a pandemic. Yes, precautions should be taken. But this is ridiculous. Why not shut down the freeways the next time a fatality or two takes place? Close our schools and churches during flu season? Ban all swimming in public waterways and private pools next time someone drowns?

    This is overkill, and it is stupid. Next thing our politicians will be doing will be to ban drinking straws or force grocery stores to charge a nickel for bags. Meantime, there are homeless people living on the streets and in the parks of nearly every small town or city in the state. Real problems that are being avoided and ignored in favor of Big Government pronouncements, because they can. Because they have a statute for that.

    The fatality rate for this pandemic is about 1% or 2% for us old people with other medical conditions, and close to 0% for children, young adults, and even middle-aged people in reasonable health. How many people will die of depression-related suicide, house fires, or home-based accidents in order to obey this nonsense?

    When I was a child they held chicken-pox parties for kids so they would get mildly ill and build immunities before they got old. I knew people with polio, then they started immunizing everyone. Why not encourage all the people under 50 to get together, spend money at local businesses, and build immunities for this illness, while isolating those of us who are older until the problem passes?

    This is definitely a case of the “cure” being far worse than the illness, and it is definitely politically motivated. Risk remains low for almost everyone, and costs are astronomical and rising daily. My thought is that far more lives will be lost, debased, or ruined by these methods than will ever be saved. Maybe good practice for if we ever really do experience a deadly pandemic, but that’s looking on the “bright side.” In my opinion.

    • Bill says:

      Bob, your ignorance is stunning! Take a day off and spend the time educating yourself. Use your computer for something useful and study up before running your mouth about something which you obviously know very little.

    • Peg Richner says:

      Bob Zybach says: “This is feeling more and more like a police state.”

      Let us not be timid in our description. It is not a “feeling.” The behavior of Oregon’s governor, its legislature,other state governments in the U.S., including the Federal one, is precisely the behavior of a police state. It’s past time for Americans to acknowledge this and respond accordingly.

      I wouldn’t object if our governments issued warnings, recommendations, advice, and evidence, but orders? This will not hold, or not with veracity may we still flatter ourselves by claiming to be the land of the free.

      Thank you, Mr. Zybach, for the illuminating post.

      • Wiley says:

        Imposing your ignorance about the reality of the virus, it’s consequences on you and ALL of the people you come into contact with, is irresponsible. Every bit of the steps being taken are made simply to protect every citizen. Asking the people in the state to take responsibility for helping limit the virus exposure is NOT an infringement on YOUR liberties, it’s a requirement to help protect the health and welfare of all of the people that call Oregon, their home.

    • Ray Kopczynski says:

      “The fatality rate for this pandemic is about 1% or 2% for us old people with other medical conditions…How many people will die of depression-related suicide, house fires, or home-based accidents in order to obey this nonsense?”

      OK — Let;s play with your numbers (and conservatively to boot): Population of USA citizens over the age if 60 is ~65,000,000. Using your “1%” figure (and I’ll cut that in half) equates to about 325,000 may die. That’s a far cry from the number killed by any other means – and tells me that just asking folks to have a modicum of common sense is not remotely effective…

    • Bill Kapaun says:

      “The fatality rate for this pandemic is about 1% or 2% for us old people with other medical conditions, and close to 0% for children, young adults, and even middle-aged people in reasonable health.”

      So that gives other people the right to kill the 1-2% because they’re old & weak?
      I guess we need a virus that kills the 1-2% stupidest!

    • GregB says:

      Bob and others with your mind set, If you had any friends or family that worked in a hospital, you’d probably have a different attitude. If you had a friend or family dying a terrible death on a ventilator in the hospital, you might think differently. I happen to have a daughter that works in a hospital emergency room (not in Albany/Corvallis). She is completely freaked out and scared. She has a fireman husband that besides putting out fires has to enter homes to help sick people. With two young children at home, they are quite stressed, to say the least. Is our freedom infringed on? You bet. I don’t like it either, but I will go along with it because this flu is different than any other. I did not believe that a couple of weeks ago, I do now. For the sake of our medical workers, please stay home. They are there to help YOU. The word is that within a couple of weeks, the flu cases will exponentially increase and the hospitals will not be able to handle all the patients. Think about the possibility of laying on the floor in the hospital with no bed or ventilator available. I pray that it won’t get this bad.

    • Cheryl P says:

      If you don’t think it’s so bad, why don’t go over to the Veteran’s home and offer to help out? And may want to brush up on your basic math skills. Based on KNOWN numbers, the fatality rate is 10%. AGAIN…KNOWN numbers…as in people who have been tested and confirmed as having CV-19 and died from it. Given the lack of testing, you know that there are hundreds of thousand more who have it…and are dying from it, but it’s not being report. But so long as you, or a loved one…a grandparent, a parent, a sibling, a spouse, a child or a grandchild…isn’t one of that 2 to 3 %…no big deal.

  3. Gordon L. Shadle says:

    Judge Andrew Napolitano asked the right question several days ago in an editorial:

    “If liberty can be taken away in times of crisis, then is it really liberty; or is it just a license, via a temporary government permission slip, subject to the whims of politicians in power?”

    When government can forcibly take away individual freedom without due process, our Constitution becomes a worthless piece of paper.

    • Ray Kopczynski says:

      When your (or Napolitano) imply that it’s perfectly acceptable to seriously endanger the lives of others, we’re really on dangerous ground! The imagined lack of “due process” you both decry is still there to override what the elected representatives have done. See you in court! Or vote them out/in of office…

  4. CHEZZ says:

    Bob, take care of yourself, your family, your neighbors while ‘you’ and ‘we’ are still here.

  5. MsJ says:

    I wish people would inform themselves more on the meaning of a Global Pandemic and what its consequences are. View multiple news sources, compare what they are reporting, disregard partisan affiliation or rhetoric, learn what the majority consensus is, especially from the health experts — don’t just jerk your knees. The information is out there in many forms, use it.

    In light of many Oregon beaches becoming a Florida Spring Break last weekend despite Gov. Brown’s pleas (not mandate) to refrain from such gatherings it’s no small wonder she issued the lockdown yesterday.

    People disregarding Gov. Brown’s lockdown are simply selfish, foolish, uninformed, and just don’t want to be inconvenienced in any way regardless of the death toll that mounts everyday worldwide. The U.S. is following an infection curve that exactly mirrors Italy’s, only a week or two behind.

    If you have viewed the images and video footage of the death and despair in Italy right now with military vehicles transporting thousands of dead bodies, then maybe it would change your mind on the necessity of a lockdown — or not.

    Maybe the death of a close friend or family member due to Coronavirus would change your mind — or not.

    Maybe nothing changes your mind.

    But what is clear is that the scale and spread of the Pandemic is unprecedented and can’t be idiotically compared to home accidents, deaths on the freeway, drownings, etc. – none of these are contagious or occur on a Global Pandemic scale.

    Ask yourself if you have ever seen or experienced in your entire life the level of change that is happening now – in the U.S. & Worldwide. International travel banned in almost every country, public places shutdown (many voluntarily), millions now working from home, health care systems overwhelmed and short of supplies, deaths from Coronavirus epicenters following an exponential curve. Every new day seems to be a record-setter.

    Ask yourself, have these unprecedented steps ever been taken during flu season ?
    Answer: No
    Reason: Coronavirus isn’t the flu, don’t compare them to each other, they are not comparable.

    Don’t sequester yourself in the backyard, claim it’s all fake, and part of some government control plan.

    If some people cannot understand how their selfish behavior costs other’s lives, or maybe their own or loved ones, then government has no other option then to safeguard the population with lockdown orders or other means.

    Last I counted, at least 17 states have ordered a lockdown, so this isn’t Gov. Brown grandstanding or politicizing, it’s becoming the general consensus of what needs to be done. Whole countries have ordered a lockdown. Some are continent-wide.

    Coronavirus is not a Republican, Democrat, or Independent, but it wants you to be a participant and vote for it – please don’t.

  6. Jim Engel says:

    Would a loud F – U Governor Brown shouted from our front porches have any meaning…:) :). She hasn’t done much up to now so she issues another edict just to show she can. A real revolt may just be around the corner. We colonials got tired of ‘Ole King George issuing edicts & taxes. As the wife has been using my 80 proof as “hand sanitizer” I’m gonna have to wilfully do a “mis-do-meanor” and go out & get more. I’ll use a blond wig but my whiskers will probably give me away.

  7. MsJ says:

    Correction on my quote from previous comment –

    “Don’t sequester yourself in the backyard, claim it’s all fake, and part of some government control plan.”

    DO sequester yourself in the backyard, but not the other two.

  8. Ean says:

    I think people are missing the point. 50 to 80 percent of us will get this. The cat is out of the bag our fate is sealed in that regard. But the whole point of social distancing is to buy our hospitals and first responders just a bit more time and to spread out the patients a little bit to minimize the rationing of health care. You may be young and healthy or old and accepting of your fate but please consider following social distancing recommendations and limiting trips your patriotic duty. Also the elderly may consider updating advanced directives, dying on a ventilator with 1 human interaction a day sounds like hell to me.

  9. Al Nyman says:

    When the big cities shutdown mass transit then I will take the virus seriously. That is the reason New York is spiraling out of control.

    • Ean says:

      I’m not sure how possible that would be in NYC. A lot of people don’t own cars there. People have to get to jobs as nurses, doctors, firefighters, nursing home employees. That might work in a city like Portland though.

  10. Bob Zybach says:

    I notice that many of the people who are outraged my my opinion do not sign their full name. Basically anonymous people shouting from across the street. Not too persuasive.

    One respondent caught the main point of what I am saying: there is a huge difference between asking citizens to use precaution and having a Governor order a lockdown. Huge. Free state vs. police state. Brown is out of control, and the writers of the statutes and fearful citizens have made this possible.

    One person has a nurse relative that is freaked out and scared. Why? Does she always get that way during flu season? What has she actually experienced — other than reading the news or watching TV — that has brought such fear?

    Another says the Governor’s hand was forced because people went to the beach. And what has been the result of this holiday? Did someone die from coronavirus as a result. Even have any symptoms? Almost drown in a sneaker wave?

    Another uses arithmetic to project that the entire population gets the disease to produce alarming numbers that do not come close to reflecting reality and then suggests I should read the news.

    My intent was to be provocative because the immense and costly efforts being taken seem like unnecessary government actions against the populace and without much evidence they are warranted. How about being strategic and isolating outbreaks in Seattle, rural Linn County, New York, and San Francisco and putting all of our resources into those efforts rather than punishing entire state populations? Some outbreaks are limited to only one or a few people in many counties or states. Why not quarantine them, test and treat their neighbors and let the rest of us use what precautions make the most sense?

    A mandated lockdown over an entire population in a misguided attempt to stop a virus is much, much closer to a police state than it is to the “land of the free.” The Governors have gone overboard and the legislators and a fearful population have allowed that to happen. Accurate and timely information and strategic uses of limited resources may be far more effective approaches and at far less cost (and fear) to most everybody else.

    • Ean says:

      The incubation period is incredibly slow so we won’t know if someone died from a trip to the beach for another 2 weeks. Sorry for not using my full name, I’d not post if it were not for anonymity.

    • Ray Kopczynski says:

      Amazing (or maybe not) – You still don’t get it…

      “…there is a huge difference between asking citizens to use precaution and having a Governor order a lockdown. Huge.”

      Yes there is…and because the idiots who don’t give a rip about anyone else but themselves, it is necessary to do a lock-down.

      “Another says the Governor’s hand was forced because people went to the beach. And what has been the result of this holiday? Did someone die from coronavirus as a result. Even have any symptoms? Almost drown in a sneaker wave?”

      Therein lies the key issue you’re wanting to totally ignore: We don’t know and can’t know for a time whether or not they have it, caught it, or passed it on – they simply were potentially endangering peoples lives with blatant disregard. That definitely warrants more than simply an “Oh well…” in my book.

  11. birdieken says:

    If this is a war then there will be casualties and we should think of what is an acceptable numbers of deaths. When young people fight and die in service for our country, most don’t even blink. Since most people who get this virus won’t even know they have it, maybe at some point us seniors should be locked down and let the young people go back to work. Let’s hope and pray our leaders can thread the needle and defeat this virus without collapsing our economy and our way of life. In the words of Warren Buffett, ” It’s never paid to bet against America”.

  12. Dick Olsen says:

    It may seem selfish, but, from what I see, if old farts like me (83) come down with this virus we stand about a 15% chance of being kicked off through those famous goal posts of life. If I catch it, I’d like a chance at a hospital bed, a ventilator and a better chance at survival. There doesn’t seem to be enough ventilators now, so slowing down the rate of infection is a smart thing to do if we want to maximize the survival rate.

    For me and I hope the rest of you, life is to much fun to be leaving prematurely.

  13. MsJ says:

    @ Zybach,

    Point-by-point response to each of your paragraphs —

    Name or no name, the facts that are reported each day speak for themselves. They don’t need a name, are persuasive by themselves, & should be heeded. Educate yourself, the info is out there.

    Gov. Brown gave Oregonians a chance to prevent a State-wide lockdown last Friday, we blew it. Similar results in some other states. The mentality of a cringe-worthy 19 year-old Florida spring-breaker who stated to the effect “If I get Coronavirus, I get it — it’s not going to interfere w/ my partying ‘cause I’ve planned this for 2 months” is juvenile and reckless. Have more sense than a 19-year old college partier, age should beget wisdom.

    This is not the flu and is not comparable to Coronavirus. If a dedicated health care worker is fearful and raising alarms, this should instill concern in non-health care workers. Health care workers are risking their lives daily (hence their fear & passing the virus on to their families) and have first-hand information on Coronavirus developments. That’s why expertise in their field is valuable, and why you generally would follow such advice as from your personal doctor, stock market advisor, etc. – they are the experts, not you.

    The Coronavirus has an estimated incubation period from 1-14 days, meaning symptoms may not show up immediately, but some do depending on the person’s immune system. It’s only been 4 days since last weekend, and testing availability is sparse. Some Florida Spring Breakers have now been testing positive, including a group of 5 who hung out together and now they all have it. It also takes some time (multiple days) before test results are available. Think about it, after only 4 days you cannot come to any conclusion whatsoever that the Oregon beach-goers from last weekend are just fine.

    Ray K’s arithmetic is sound and conservative. He assumed 65 million Americans are 60+ years old. He then assumed a very conservative number of 0.5 % (half of your lowest number of 1-2 %) of those 65 million will die, so 325,000. Nowhere did he state the entire U.S. population will test positive and possibly die. If that were true, then that would be astoundingly beyond alarming. Google “Coronavirus Deaths”. It shows up-to-date stats on Coronavirus positive infections, deaths, and recoveries for all countries and U.S. states. Globally, there are 417,663 positive results, 18,605 deaths, and 108,312 recoveries. Age not considered, that is a death rate of 4.5%, and an early indicator as testing lags behind the stats and deaths are being reported at a near-exponential scale.

    What evidence do you need?
    Don’t you watch the evening news?
    Read different online sources?
    Like I said, the evidence is out there and has been for several weeks, the Pandemic is getting worse each and every day.
    Do you have to be on your deathbed before you believe it and take action? In that case, too little too late.
    The steps being taken now are to prevent new epicenters from forming and burgeoning where otherwise they could have been prevented. The economic price of making these decisions now far outweighs that of taking a cavalier approach to a Global Pandemic later and paying a much, much greater price afterwards. If you notice, more and more outbreaks are reported each day in Oregon counties. The numbers are not going down, but are accelerating and going up. It’s way worse abroad, although the U.S. is rapidly catching up, #3 in the world now.

    You can’t stop a Global Pandemic by being ignorant to the facts. Misguidance is driven by selfish inconvenience-driven thought and the hope it all magically goes away on its own. I wouldn’t call myself fearful at this point, but I realize the gravity of the situation and am doing my part not to make light of it or make it worse. If U.S. Governors have gone overboard, then scores of countries also have, you are obscenely outnumbered. The goal here is not to become an Italy by learning from their early mistakes, otherwise you may see the military carting away bodies by the truckload as Italy is currently doing. Let’s be smart, informed, and prevent this from happening, otherwise the price and inconvenience will be far greater and the outcry deafening.

    • Bob Zybach says:

      MsJ: The fact is you are using a pseudonym and yet somehow affecting an air of authority and reason. My information is known. I have a PhD in Environmental Sciences from OSU and have followed the news closely for many years. Your repeating things that are widely known and assuming that I am unaware of them is insulting. If you want to do a point-by-point discussion with me on these topics, then you need to come out from hiding before I am going to bother to engage — especially in a public forum. Probably better to discuss privately by email or telephone as an actual person.

      Question: What is your Governor doing about the thousands of homeless people that can’t hunker down in a house, use public restrooms, or stay dry at a McDonalds or a Library because of her edicts? What about them?

      • MsJ says:

        I’m sorry you feel that a near-global consensus on action taken during an unprecedented pandemic inconveniences or disagrees with you. I will side with facts and information that are being distributed by health professionals who know much more than you or I on the subject. This evening, India just went on a 21-day lockdown for their 1.3 billion populace. Most leaders are heeding professional advice, we should as well.

        These professionals also have the educational background and experience in the field to back up what they say and are trying to advise people on logical steps to take for the public good and to save lives. Your words of “this is stupid”, “this is overkill”, and politically motivated intonations are dangerous and not in the interest of public good which I have serious objections to, thus my strong replies. You downplay the worst pandemic in modern history as current world events are demonstrating daily. Separate the politics from the science, as politics have no role in the scientific method.

        What hits home for me is the plea of health professionals —

        “We stayed at work for you. You stay at home for us.”

        Sound advice & not much to ask for those risking their lives as well as their families daily to control a pandemic and help those that are fighting for their lives after contracting the virus.

        As far as your question – write to Gov. Brown, I’m not in charge of such things.

  14. Al Nyman says:

    Coach K is a fine example of figures don’t lie but liars figure. The best data we have from any source is the Diamond Princess cruise ship. Of the 3700 passengers and crew, in a completely confined quarters, eating together and in close quarters, 712 passengers and crew tested positive for the virus and 46% had no symptoms. There were 7 deaths and they surely did not get the best medical attention until they got to Japan. Of the population on the ship about 20% got the disease and and 1% of them died. Nobody in the US will be stuck on a ship with sick passengers but if they did under coach K’s astute arithmetic, 13 million oldsters like myself will get the disease and based on the ship’s rate of 1% 130,000 will die. Now I will bet you any amount of money that figure is overblown by a factor of at least 10.

  15. Al Nyman says:

    I also have the following information for readers to digest:
    1. It would appear that 80-90% of the population will be virus free or show no symptoms if you extrapolate the cruise ship statistics. They also reported that the virus was still present in the ship after 17 days which would indicate that everybody was exposed to the virus.
    2. There were 34,200 deaths from flu in the 2018-19 flu season even with many people such as my wife and I getting vaccinated.
    3. There were 60,000+ deaths from opioids in 2019.
    4. There were 38,800 deaths from auto accidents in 2019.
    I would suggest that the liberal news media has overblown the effects of the virus in an attempt to defeat Trump in 2020.

  16. Bill says:

    There seem to be a few very willfully simple minded and selfish ignoramuses willing to reveal their vacuous though processes here…And their lack of consideration for front line medics is sociopathic. One day you will need these people and it saddens me to think of you benefitting from the efforts of these courageous folk…you certainly don’t deserve it. And to Al Nyman, They did not find the virus on the cruise ship (17 days later) They found the RNA from the virus…Not the same thing but I’m sure that point is lost on you along with all else.

    • Al Nyman says:

      I guess you must be smarter than the CDC as they reported finding traces of the virus in uncleaned rooms 17 days after the passengers left. At no place did it refer to RNA.

  17. John Thomas Jr says:

    I just read all the comments. I’m 77, and pissed I can’t go skiing the rest of this season.
    Why did we give the 18 yr old genius demographic voting rights? And Pelosi wants to lower that to what? 16? Who is more demented? She or me?

    I have the right to self impose ‘shelter in place.’ And have. In a few days, even the dogs will plot to kill me.

    The best move the Governor- by- default could have issued is mandated shopping hours for seniors only, early in the morning, when the smart set is still sleeping off yesterday. The local Winco has a shopper limit, and when met, an employee monitors ingress and egress: one out allows one in. The line is advised to stand at a safe 6 foot distance. That easily could be applied to all commerce. Like, how to pay for PERS which is probably down 20% en toto, and the burst of unemployment benefits? Maybe common sense commerce is better than no commerce at all. And lots of hand sanitizer.

    I asked a grocery asst manager about the first of the month when Oregon Trail Cards get replenished. Was told the money goes in their accounts by last number of card ID: 1 on April 1, etc. 400 pounders in the mobility cart pulling a trailer grocery cart days are crowded and are by human nature and State design. Maybe there should be a mandated time for them to shop their debit card food supply. I imagine that would not pass constitutional muster.

    I haven’t heard any stats or have seen the math, but there is a law of diminishing prospects to the deal, as those who get it and show no symptoms are assumed immune. As those increase, so does “herd protection,” as in why “anti-vacs” don’t die like flies from a host of other preventable diseases. Are we actually confined to allow the growing immunity class to reach “herd protection” numbers? That will take longer than my pull date to accomplish. Likely buying time to get a vaccine is driving Federal actions. The ventilator thing goes against the age old recognition that “pneumonia is an old man’s best friend.” And we all do have a pull date.

    For us old farts addicted to the health care system and drugs: take comfort that China is going back to work so that we have a dependable supply of pharmaceuticals….unless, of course, they get pissed off that our media is “mis-representing” their government. wink wink….

    Here, the largest hurdle is that Oregon Higher Education is addicted to China students as several times the resident tuition is ab academic gold mine, and without those students Big U’s talent “educators” (are there under grad teachers on faculty?) can’t make the six figure incomes for life for the learned faculty. Higher Ed is addicted to foreign student money. Which of course helps us “deplorables” by “keeping costs down.” Hear that song and dance if you can.

    Likely, most of the problem is instant communication and the idiot journalists employed to sell their media. Basic truth and common sense, deep reporting, are a thing of the past. No way to make money when the same internet allows self advertising and marketing. In the end, you have what we are now seeing: media bought and paid for by political interests, and the innate social positions taken by people who can’t make a difference in science as they are inept at that, nor were smart enough to be in law school or medicine. And for that they seek Pulitzers, not Nobel’s. Even that became a marketing tool for Big Media. Like me pointing out a couple years ago that the PAC12 had more Nobels that year than the Ivy League schools. Or the SEC with zero.

    We have to learn from all this. And are. Brown is a dysfunctional weather vane: useless on calm days and incapable in high wind. China will withhold trade goods as a form of political/commercial warfare, even the stuff of making pharmaceuticals. This a Republic and was creatred to have the States taking care of themselves except for actions needed to protect the sovereignty of the Nation. So “sanctuary city or state”, if a right, comes with the responsibility to be able to protect those in that sanctuary, even from a coronavirus. States need ventilators in reserve. They can ship them to other states where the hot spots are. And order more, if needed, from American suppliers, on a cost plus basis. Capitalism does work. Only not in a socialist state that believes commerce and business is an enemy in need of punishment, by excessive taxation and regulation, all of which is to support income and jobs for the state, not the people they serve. That issue gets cloudier every year,

    Common sense says shelter in place. Darwin will improve the gene pool as to surviving pandemics and herd heath. Or we would be extinct. In exponential progressions, the spread of the disease is also equal to the acquisition of the disease, and it is the easy survivors who produce the “herd immunity” that drives the pandemic into enclaves. We have done that with small pox. We keep a secure amount of the living disease from which to create vaccines. Then we went searching the world for any outbreaks and UN teams were sent to vaccinate the potentially exposed and unexposed. I remember when real newspapers (that was a while back!) reported that there were no known cases of small pox world wide.

    Immunity is the goal. How do we get there? At what cost now and what cost later? and lives are a cost. “Collateral damage,” as the Pentagon is won’t to say. And all of it is being balanced with how much economic ruination can we withstand at what cost in trade, money, and lives? Sorry. That MUST be discussed. Oregon politics are not up the challenge in this present state of progressive blue state one party majority for 32 years and only Democrats hired to work for the State, as we see by administrative recruiting nationwide to fill Oregon jobs. No reticent hiring by Brown in that matter. Or her predecessors. Carpet bag Oregon. And now we get to see how that works. Will she appoint a janitor with a law degree to the Supreme Court because she works so efficiently? Nothing surprises me now. Nothing.

  18. Cooper says:

    I have no doubt that this flu virus is dangerous, and many people will die of it, I wonder that we haven’t outlawed automobiles for the public safety, as 30 or 40 thousand people die in car crashes every year, all preventable by getting rid of automobiles. In my lifetime that would have saved approximately 3,000,000 lives. of course that would probably have destroyed the economy with all the accompanying unemployment, but what of a;; those lives.
    We are in the process of generating a “virus depression” that will make the 1930’s look like a picnic.
    By the way I too have been a healthcare professional during my working years.

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